Abandon All Fear

What nobody else seems to be saying…

[Abortion] 9 x 4

Posted by Lex Fear on September 28, 2007

29/02/2008 – UPDATE: It’s official that this has to be the most popular post I’ve ever written. I’m getting visits into the 100’s daily and mostly landing at this page. But the reason for this update is that it’s come to my attention that some readers are being misled into thinking that the dead/murdered/killed/terminated/aborted baby in the second picture is Kimberly Mueller. I did not state this- in fact I provided a link to the news report that stated baby Kimberley was born the worlds smallest surviving baby.

In actual fact Kimberly Mueller is alive and well growing up with her ‘wanted’ parents. Please note that my reference to the familiarity of the image was to draw an inference between the two, that the second child was not only alive but had every possibility of health and life ahead of it, and was at a similar age to baby Kimberley before being made dead.

It’s startling, upsetting and sadly a reality, I don’t make apologies for this. I truly hope that perhaps someone considering an abortion in the second trimester would find this post and be put off. I would hope they consider adoption, or even the fact that their own mother gave them chance. I don’t believe these children are unwanted (by God, by childless couples, by the church or people of compassion), but I do believe for every ‘abortion’ there is an unwanted mother.

36. That’s the number of weeks, roughly, that it takes for a pregnancy to come to full term.

24. That’s the number of weeks (in the UK) that an abortion can be legally carried out up to.

12. That’s the ‘safety zone’, the number of weeks between 24 and 36 for a growing fetus/unborn child.

15. That’s the number of weeks that baby Kimberly Mueller was born prematurely (that makes her 21 weeks old as a fetus/child).

If baby Kimberly was killed terminated now, it would not be called ‘termination’, it would be called murder.

Here’s a picture of baby Kimberly, weighing just 10.5 ounces:

I’m trying to figure out where I’ve seen a similar looking picture before… [please do not click to continue if you are of a sensitive nature]

I’m not saying that unwanted mothers (who would want a mother that would terminate them before they had a chance?) shouldn’t have a choice about abortion, but let’s call it what it is, murder, killing, selfishness. Let’s not use terms like ‘viability’, ‘abortion’ and ‘termination’ to ease the unpleasant business of ending human life.

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29 Responses to “[Abortion] 9 x 4”

  1. lwtc247 said

    I Alex. I’m not familiar with this case, but abortion is abhorent. there is no other word for it. All these ‘arguements’ for abortion (other than absolute medical necessity – perhaps) are utterly repugnat – “It’ll ruin your life”, “It’ll interfere with your career” – Boy oh boy, there’s some total sickos out there.

    I don’t think women should have a “choice” – It’s a false construct. It is an evil of society caused by the secularisation of modern life.

  2. Deleted you first comment as it appeared to be a duplicate, but it looks like there was a db error.

    I think it should be made plain to women who do ‘choose’ that it’s not just some disease or bunch of cells they’re getting rid of- it’s life.

    Also, I support doctors who refuse to do abortions based on personal beliefs.

    of course it would be a perfect world if the choice to abort didn’t exist, but then that would also be a world where the church and other organisations would not condemn and step into help with rearing children.

    I still think full-term abortion is the only solution- wait till the baby is born then ask the mother, OK, now do you want to terminate or keep it?

  3. lwtc247 said

    Yes. You do well to highlight the consequence of unwanted births. The churches (all faiths) MUST play a role in helping bring them up. Perhaps governments should also
    allow half-pay leave for people to take a time-out for a few months to help look after and interact with orphans. Other than the worship of God, what else is more important than love/caring and helping one another.

  4. lwtc247 said

    “I still think full-term abortion is the only solution- wait till the baby is born then ask the mother, OK, now do you want to terminate or keep it?” – Excellent point!

  5. mattghg said

    Be careful, Alex. Soon you’ll have Amnesty International on your back saying you’re denying women their ‘reproductive rights’.

  6. Andy said

    Whilst I can accept that you have a point of view that may differ from mine, I would not, in any way, wish that women had to go back to the bad old days where a back-street abortionist were used, endangering the lives of the women involved. You might say that it should be made illegal to do such abortions, but that won’t stop it happening.

    It is interesting, I find, that it is mostly members of the male sex (but not exclusively) who criticise and demand that abortion be ‘terminated’.

    Whereas you may call it murder, killing and selfishness, each circumstance will be different and whilst it may be murder or killing, it is not always selfishness.

    And, I always find the arguments where a foetus may endanger the life of the mother but the anti-abortionist would say that it is God’s will, a strange and unnerving thing. So, by deliberately leaving a foetus in the womb, when you can do something to save the life of the mother, you are as guilty of murder as those (in your view) who carry out the abortion.

    I know of someone who has become quite unhinged by having children. I do not believe that, at any time, there was any consideration of abortion. However, the kids that arrived, has made life extremely difficult, not only for her but also for the rest of the family. And, I would add that, in my opinion, dangerous to life and health. In that case, had she wanted an abortion, by what right do you say she should not have had one? It would not have been selfish as there was no need for her to be suffering so. On the other hand, should anyone have stopped her it would have been selfish to the extreme. As it is, she has great kids but they too suffer from the difficulties that she now has.

    I find the arguments (from both sides) unreasoned and emotive.

    As I said at the beginning, whereas I can understand your point of view, there is no real logic in it all. In the meantime, people are being put in a position to choose for or against something which is based upon a religious belief or an anti-religious belief and neither does anyone any favours.

    There is a right to life – but this is for everybody. And sometimes a choice must be made. You can put your own choice in God’s hands, if you like, but I would rather put my choice in the hands of the real rather than the ethereal.

    Please note that I use a capital ‘g’ only for the sake of politeness and respect to you and your readers. In reality I can see no difference between your one and the Roman or Greek Gods. All they are is a method by which people in powerful positions can control the population, give rules by which people can live together in society and give some sort of answer to things for which no reason can be discerned (at the time).

  7. Politics aside of whether it should or shouldn’t be illegal, I understand how, in the case of a mothers life abortion can be justified, however I would still maintain it’s selfish.

    If we deconstruct the word selfish and take away the emotional resonance – we discover that human beings are very selfish. Putting your own priorities and well-being before any others is selfish, which is why we have the concept of sacrifice. If a mother was to decide to take the risk and died consequently to giving birth- she would be deemed self-less, she made an (ultimate) sacrifice.

    It’s not always evil to be selfish, after all, it’s part of the survival instinct- but there should certainly be no reward or compassion for being selfish- as the selfish person is simply doing something that comes second nature- like avoiding an accident- protecting no. 1. When someone acts against this nature- sacrificially- then we recognise this, because they not only fought the odds- they fought against their own nature.

    So see that I’m not being harsh or emotional, I’m using the terms in proper context.

    I must confess- I watch Supernanny, and I think she’s bloody marvelous. Most of the time, it’s not the children who need discipline or need to change- it’s the parents. Not wanting to criticise your friend without actually knowing her, would she claim to be the perfect mother?

    Let’s ask a hypothetical question, if the Italian government enacted a law which gave mothers the right to terminate up until the 5th year of the child. Would your friend wish to have any of these children terminated? Horrible thought but since you brought up child-raising.

    Here’s another hypothetical question. What if an eager couple turned up on your friends doorstep and offered to take 1 or all of the children off her hands- adopt them, raise them and have no further contact?

    The fact is, adoption agencies do exist, as well as childless couples. What is it that makes a mother willing to either keep or kill, but not give away?

    Your answer may be “it’s her rights” but rights are decided by governments not formed in one’s head (I could envision it’s my right to drive a BMW and therefore BMW should give me one, but no government is going to enforce a policy like that).

    My answer is that it’s selfishness- the desire to control ones own life, ones own destiny. Going back to the law again- it’s illegal in America to murder, however step back to the Wild West where there was little enforcement, and laws allowed in certain cases for you to settle disputes with guns. People took advantage of this legal climate and killed those who got in the way (of their individual interests). Step forward 150 years, these kind of laws no longer exist- (people still do it, but that’s besides the point) but a law allowing the killing of an unborn life inside youre womb does exist.

    I know of people in my life I would love to have settled with in a gunfight, but fear of the law prevented me at the time- they interfered with my comfort, my happiness, my life. Many women today have abortions because it will interfere with their comfort, happiness and life.

    Incidentally I only argue for 2 changes:
    1. Stop using alternative terminology to soften the impact.
    2. Change the laws to allow full-term ‘abortion’- it makes sense.

    Finally, your friend deserves honour and respect for pressing ahead with child-rearing. There seems to be such a lack of all round respect and honour in society towards mothers. Perhaps for some reason they are seen alongside housewives as though they are still chained to the binding of male dominance. Yet I think being a housewife and being a mother is a fairly tough role and there are some women who enjoy it.

  8. lwtc247 said

    Andy:

    I think it is a false choice though that they either go to a ‘good’ abortion clinic or a back-street abortionist. Why can’t the choice be: they have abortions or they dont have abortions. Almost all laws are breached at some time or another but that doesn’t mean they should be scrapped.

    Men’s lives are the least affected that is why they may be more pro-life. But when it comes to the life of a person, I think the sacrifice a mother makes is a necessity, albeit a troublesome one. I cannot think of the vast majority of abortions being for unselfish reasons. The abortion industry will always cite the ‘life threatening’ senario, but I rather think this is blown up out of all proportion.

    I am unaware of how an anti-abortionist could say a developing human endangering the mothers life is ‘Gods will’ – Where did they get this decree from? Rather it is against that THEY THINK is Gods will. The two may be radically different. I haven’t researched enough to confortably claim I know what my faiths stance is on this issue, but I would guess that in such cases, the mothers life would take priority, for your reason included.

    Difficulty in life as a consequence of having kids isn’t a licence to kill. Everything in life possess a threat to life. Going to work, eating certain foods, the danger to life in the context I presume you mention it, is I would say, just part of life something to be coped with. That is the right and the right of the growing child to say she shouldn’t have one. Killing a growing baby for convenience is a sickness and perversion of the mind.

    To expect an emotionless arguement isn’t logical but I am pleased with the reasons. I think abortion isn’t simply religious as secularists and atheists still face a MORAL question. Is morality isn’t exclusively within the field of religion? I don’t think it is.

    ‘G’/’g’ unfortunately religion debunking isn’t a fair or sustained debte. A soundbyte discussion on its merits or corruption is all that passes for thought these days so for this and other reasons, I can well understand disillusionment with the church, and it is likely that the Church HAS at times, been manipulated by self-serving, self-enriching and self-empowering scumbags.

    The trick is separationg the spin and lies from the beautiful heart.

  9. Andy said

    I am sorry for the delay in my response, guys, but, you know, work and stuff just gets in the way and I felt it deserved a bit of thought. Sorry for it being so long. I must learn to edit my thoughts into soundbites 

    Of course, Alex, you are entitled to your opinion – it’s your blog, after all. Your definition of selfish goes beyond that that most people accept, in my opinion. To be selfish implies someone with a hard heart, someone who doesn’t care about anyone else. For me, the choice of words could be something like self-oriented or survival-oriented (even if you wish to add self in front of that).

    Personally, I don’t think that a mother who decided to take the risk during childbirth and died can be called selfless. Once again she is being selfish (using your word) since she is enabling/wanting her genes to continue which is what all animals, humans included, have such a strong urge to do and is selfish to the extreme.

    Unfortunately, I am not able to watch Supernanny. But it stands to reason that it’s the parents who need the correction. So many times you see children that are uncontrolled and uncontrollable and, at the end of the day, just like owners of dogs, it’s not the kids fault but the parents. However, I won’t get started on that one.

    You see, you work from the opinion that a foetus is the same as a child out of the womb. And, whilst I understand your point of view, it doesn’t make it right (as I’m sure you will think of my view).

    And that’s something that neither of us can change since it is the basis by which we judge the issue.

    So, for me, a living, breathing child cannot be equated with a foetus that, if taken from the womb and given no support, would, in the majority of cases pass away and, therefore, your argument about terminating such a child has no value and is no argument.

    It is a marvellous thing that, these days, for a mother who wishes it, we can save the lives of those children born prematurely and, for those mothers, I would not wish to take away their right to give life to their children and use all the technology that we have to sustain the child. That is progress and that is good, even if progress is not necessarily a good thing at all times.

    I would disagree that rights are decided by governments. They are decided by human beings, who are fallible, and politicians who pander to the overwhelming majority in order to keep themselves in a job. If everyone in the UK thought that it was the right thing that every person should have a BMW, then the Government would make it so – but that won’t happen because the majority (or even, large minority) will ever think that is a ‘right’.

    On your premise that aborting is like killing an unborn life that is true. However, at the time, it is actually a part of the mother and not a separate entity. This would mean that any living thing inside a person has the right to life, i.e. cannot be got rid of. Would that include cancer cells, which, in reality are only malformed cells, but still cells?

    I agree that you can change the words but, to be honest, I don’t think abortion as a word is any different from killing, terminating, etc. For me, they all have the same meaning.

    With regard to full term abortions, then fine. But, only if the foetus were to die when it came out of the womb. If it does not die given the normal birthing process then it should not be terminated/killed/whatever once it has breathed life. And there it is. The crux of the issue. The breath of life. In the womb it doesn’t breathe and cannot sustain itself (and by that I mean breathe, move, cry – not actually fend completely for yourself). Once born, the child is an entity in itself. The way we have evolved means that like all ‘cubs’ it requires looking after and, for humans, longer than other animals but at that point it is, really separate and alive.

    To iwtc247, I agree. There shouldn’t be a choice of ‘where to go’. But, if you make it illegal, then the back-street abortionists will be reality and that, in my opinion, is far, far worse than a proper clinic. And, whereas all laws are breached sometimes, when it involves the health or welfare of a living, breathing person who feels they have no choice in the matter, then the law should be reviewed with the safety of those persons a top priority – as, in fact, happened.

    Those who kill the unborn child for the sake of convenience are not those that I am talking about. However, where it has an enormously bad impact on the life of the mother (and this can be mental, physical, etc) then it is right and proper to ensure that the welfare of the living, breathing persons are foremost.

    It is, indeed a moral question. And morals are made by humans. Morals change with the times. It was, once, quite moral and acceptable to have slaves. And now? Morals change with the flow of society’s conscience and thoughts. The reason for the debate on abortions is exactly because of this need to question the morality of everything.

    And, I’m afraid, I see no beautiful heart, for there is none. It is true that this is not the place for a religious debate but, in the main, it is the Catholic church and other religions who shout the loudest about the need to scrap the laws allowing abortions. They cannot be separated from the argument because it the morals they wish to impose upon society that creates the dilemma here. And they do it in the name of something that, for me, may or may not exist.

  10. lwtc247 said

    If God didn’t exist, then that wouldn’t negate religionists taking a moral stance on abortion. It also does not make that morality null and void. The Church is a bastion for Morals (even if it spectacularly falls foul of that at times) and I would say it morality through a large institution is more successful at leading to implementation of those moral standards than would be the case if it were always up to individual discretion.

    Abortion is still heavily regulated, and in some countries (secular countries) it is illegal, so discussion of the Church as being the problem here isn’t sustainable, but the Church is always a soft target and an instinctive one perhaps. Why should a Churches moral standards be rejected but man made secular moral codes must be obeyed. Of course this point hinges on whether or not one believes in God, but once again the validity of that moral standard isn’t validated by existence of God.

    I dont think Morals change they merely get spun. Slaver is wrong, but we still have it. This time the slavery is economic entrapment in the football sewing sweatshops in Balgladesh or Mumbai. Its just that we find those forms of slavery acceptable although still we know it’s amoral.

    Life cannot be lead without some sacrifice of some kind. It is impossible and probably wrong to remove those necessary scarifices into a lifestyle devoid of meaning.

    Actually I think it’s very difficult to persuade people through snapshot arguements as to which pov is more credible. Excellent moral mazes like this one help one assess the information but there is also a huge daily nurting influence from society which shapes our views, a nurturing which has had it’s way for decades already and already imposed itself upon the “free thinking” ability of the sheeple, similiar I suppose to the privilage religion had for hundreds of years, but, as I agree with Alex’s excellent point, the anti-abortion message of religion isn’t based on selfishness (which obviously you dispute Andy) quite the opposite from this God dibelieving or God pigeonholing (secularist) society we have today.

  11. mattghg said

    You should check out these sites if you think the abortion debate is all about religion:
    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/debates/secularist/abortion/index.shtml
    http://www.godlessprolifers.org/home.html

  12. Andy said

    Good points, Iwtc247. Morality is not exclusive to religion, of course. It is exclusive only to Humans, who form groups and then have to have some sort of rules to live by. I really didn’t mean this to turn into a religion/anti-religion debate and I’m sorry for that as people’s faith is their own affair. At the end of the day we all believe in something, even if it’s only us.

    The only problem is that, when it comes to the religious moral rules, the people who quote them do so as if they are unchangeable and irreversible and that is what I find objectionable. They are, of course, neither of those things.

    ‘Thou shalt not kill’ is not the word of God or gods but merely something that prevents people who live together from ending with only one of them left alive. It just makes sense.

    You are right, I do dispute it. It was, and remains, a method to keep the women down which is not only selfish but a sign, to me, of men who do not feel confident in themselves.
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  13. Andy said

    “All too often, I fear that I’m the only nonreligious person who opposes the genocide of abortion used as a birth control substitute”

    From one of the sites you mention, Mattghg. They have members, sure, but it’s interesting how many of them would make exceptions. If you take the exception-people out, you are left with a lot fewer.

    But, to be honest, most people either agree to abortion or don’t, but rarely enter into debate. In fact, I almost never enter into debates like this because I don’t feel it is my place to do so, being a bloke and all.

    And for the people that are vocal against abortion, my feeling remains that most of it is driven by some attachment to some religion.

  14. Against Abortion said

    I feel strongly that any case of abortion is cold blooded murder. If a pregnant woman is murdered, that is a double homicide, so tell me.. why isn’t abortion murder?

  15. Keyzgsplangel said

    The mueller baby at the top of these pictures was not aborted hun, that is false. I am not in support trust me but you might want to check your story, she was born way to early but is surviving infact she is home with her family now

  16. Alex Fear said

    Keyzgsplangel,

    I appreciate your comment, however I think I made it clear that baby Kimberly was not aborted when I stated “If baby Kimberly was killed terminated now, it would not be called ‘termination’, it would be called murder”.

    I’ve posted an update to clear up any confusion.

  17. abortion = murder said

    I’m a muslim and my religion forbids abortions. But when i saw this article it really cleared up my mind. Thank you for making this article…I would never advise someone to do an abortion or support abortions in general from now on.
    It’s tottaly obvious how cruel and selfish abortion is…killing another human being just not to bother raising it or simply bare and give it for an adoption.
    They don’t make our existance questionable if they get born, but we still kill them!

    My mother had an abortion before i was born and I’m afraid to show her this article becouse she might get stressed and upset after seeing this…I think that people are not into killing, it’s just that they are not educated enough about abortions.

    I tottaly agree with someone here who said ”I feel strongly that any case of abortion is cold blooded murder. If a pregnant woman is murdered, that is a double homicide, so tell me.. why isn’t abortion murder?”

  18. Angela said

    I feel like I can speak on behalf of some of those you are condemning as murderers and selfish coldblooded killers, because that perspective seems so blatantly absent from this discussion. I became pregnant at sixteen. I was underweight and not in good enough health to carry a baby full term without difficulty. Until you are put into this kind of situation, you cannot imagine the confusion and the sheer terror that consumes you. I very seriously considered abortion. I even visited Planned Parenthood to discuss the procedure. Ultimately, I decided against it after realizing what a strong and extensive support system I had to help me through this journey (not all women are so lucky). My pregnancy was difficult and dangerous. I almost died and my health to this day has never been the same.

    I love my son dearly, and I wouldn’t change any of this if I had it to do over again, but because I have been there and I know what a traumatic situation it is to find yourself unexpectedly pregnant and alone, I support the decision to abort. While it may not have been the right choice for me, I believe wholeheartedly in a woman’s right to decide what should be done. I remember how powerless I felt. I felt like my life was spinning out of control, and I was so grateful for having options, ALL the options, available to me, and until you are put in that situation you cannot presume to understand and you CANNOT pass judgment.

  19. SaveBabies said

    You shouldn’t have had sex at 16, nobody is ready at that age, NOBODY! A baby should never have even a chance to be aborted, it’s just not right. It is MURDER.

  20. abortion = murder said

    Angela I had a girlfriend who became pregnant at 15(fortunately not with me) and she had an abortion…And you think the age should be excuse??? NO!!! In fact you shouldn’t get pregnant at that age.
    You said ”and until you are put in that situation you cannot presume to understand and you CANNOT pass judgment” what i tottaly agree with but think for a second about a baby…Baby who never chose to be aborted?? But still in most cases babies get aborted(murdered) so that mother can live…That’s so selfish!!!
    Abortion is a murder no matter if mother lives or not because mother is responsible because she is prenant and not the baby.
    Anyway thank you for not doing the abortion 🙂

  21. ashley said

    abortion is murder. i am a woman. it is wrong. i dont care whaat gender you are. how can killing an innocent child be ok in anyone’s eyes? if you dont want to be pregnant, dont have sex. If you dont want a baby get your uterus removed. but for god’s sake,and the future life of a child,don’t kill them. imagine what they can become. abortion is morally and in every other way wrong. Women have the choice whether or not to open their legs. It is completely selfish to end a life for fear of yours not being perfect. there is always adoption. So many women cant have children,who deserve to be mothers,and for all of you who are pregnant and dont want to be, give your child to a loving mother who will let that baby thrive. Murder is murder. There is no other term for killing something. I dont care what anyone says. it is horrid,and i’d like those people to think from the baby’s point of view. Can you see yourself asking yor mother “mommy, please dont kill me?” those babies dont have a choice. But if enough people stand up for what is right and end this heartless murdering, so many more lives can be saved. I am in complete disgust thinking of the people who murdered their own children created,and brought to life inside of them,something that only half the world can ever feel. If you ever think that abortion is ok, you look up the pictures, and you look at the mothers who decided in the end not to,they regret ever feeling that abortion was the answer. I believe life occurs when the egg is fertilized. I dont care how long you have been pregnant, or what your life will be if you have the baby,abortion is wrong. Adoption is the way to go. With adoption existing,why on earth does abortion need to be legal?please dont respond if you are against me. Nothing you say will make me feel any different.(and for those who want to refer to an abortion based on the health of the mother, if the mother has a 90% chance of dying if she stays pregnant, then the child most likely will die in utero,as statistics show. I’m not sure how i feel about this,due to the fact that in aborting the fetus may kill the mother as well. I thought many times of this, but i have no answer for you) All i feel is that i am against the murdering of innocent lives. It is not our place to decide who lives or dies. Would you want YOUR life in someone elses hands?

  22. ashley said

    And just to add to what i have said; Why should it be the womans right? Is there not 100 other people who could be potentially involved in the future childs life? The mother is not the only soul involved in that childs creation. And, The child is not just an ugly mole waiting to be removed, it has life,a soul, blood, its human. It isnt like going and getting an unsightly tooth pulled. I do not understand how it is said to be our right? It’s our right to hold life in our hands only to end it? Its our right to be able to be home to a developing life just to stir it up and suck it out? Our only right is to cherish that we can carry these innocent babies,and deliver them into a whole new world. Our right is to be their only form of shelter from the outside world. It is a gift to be a mother. A true gift to feel life inside. I dream of being a mother. it makes me sick to think someone could discard a child like yesterdays news. Remember this if you remeber nothing at all: That is life inside you, a living soul, waiting to meet YOU, its mother, it doesnt care how old you are, or how much money you make, it waited 9 months to see you smile. can you remember being a child and loving somone so much? That is how that baby feels about you. It knows you themost of all people, its the only soul on this earth who knows what your heartbeat sounds like from inside you. You have the potential to share a bond most people can’t even imagine. Please don’t justify fetal murder. Please. Its the biggest mistake you will ever make.

  23. kate said

    I think people should stop arguing over this subject. There are too many factors to consider on each side of the debate and this will never end.

    In some womens defece (kind of anyway) men are a large factorin why women choose to abort. If they truley believe that they are ‘in love’ and the man tells them ‘I don’t want this so sort it or I don’t want you’ and they are weak enough to let that bother them because of their psycological state at the time, then they are going to do as the man orders, or the pushy parent, or the singleton scared of what might be said by society. So it is all well and good saying abortion is wrong because you are commiting murder and YOU are evil for it, but thats not entirely fair is it all previous taken into account. Just as it is not fair to tell a woman she HAS to carry this baby to turm and deliver it when she dose not want it (yes I know addoption is an option but it’s really not that simple.)

    Now just think of all this energy wasted in this debate? All the angar and frustration? All energy which I belive should be focused on the ACTUAL problem!

    I think women and men should be taught in depth and properly about sex from an early age. If they don’t want to have children, don’t do the act or use contraceptives, if you don’t belive in using contraceptives then you are the ones dumb enough to allow more and more unwanted births be braught into this world and causing the need for abortion! Not only that, but the poor treatment of children that are forced to be dumped on some unsuspecting teen girl (fair enough her stupid fault for getting in that position in the first place) the father dose a runner and she is left alone to raise the child that she dosent want… the child in worst cases ends up neglected, battered, dead and the viscious circle goes on. You see it all over the news so don’t bother getting on your high horse about it.

    And to add to this, I belive that kids should be shown actual child birth, all the blood and pain, they should be shown all the nasties of a growing pregnancy and what pregnancy can do to you in general, while also showing the boys as they are half of the problem just as well as the girls.

    If teen girls and upward who have never had children are taught this from an early age I am positive it would put them off the silly thaught of oh I want to have unprotected sex because its ‘cool’. I think they should show deseased genetailia due to this also.

    If they are just informed of all the correct information in sex education classes, instead of putting a bloody condom on a banana and watching a dramatisation of what sex is about which misses out all the real information, this gets people into the place where they need to have an abortion or take the morning after pill because of one reason or another.

    Now I am not saying that this will end the need for abortion but the rates will be much less and the affects of unwanted births will be much more reduced also.

    And the adults? Well if it is because you don’t ‘like’ usuang contraceptives or whatever then tough, you made your bed now lie in it-thats my opinion which I don’t think matters because I have never been in that situation.

    If the fetus has something seriously wrong with it and you cant handle it or whatever- fair enough, it’s medical and there is not much to do about it really, just make sure you do all reaserch possible before you make a decision.(again my opinion)

    I think that abortion has it’s place, but I also belive that allot of times it is not a necisary option to take. But instead of us all arguing one side and the other, the energy really should be put into curing the reason for it in the first place… uneducation of sex and the effects.

  24. Helen S said

    Alex–

    The only objection I have to your post – and it’s a strong one – is your reference to “an unwanted mother.” Much of the dialogue about abortion focuses the blame on the women who make these decisions. And what about the men who impregnated them? Are we to assume that all, or even most men, who father aborted children had desired to keep the pregnancies? Quite the contrary. In fact, many women are pressured into abortions by their partners. Any pro-life campaign should be matched equally by a campaign to force fathers to A) support their families, and B) stay around. No woman should have to raise a child, support a child, or go through a pregnancy alone. Period. I will consider your post hypocritical until you address the responsibilities of the men involved.

  25. Alex Fear said

    Helen, I absolutely agree with you, please see this previous post: The Created Image.

    If you also read my other posts on abortion you will see I’ve gone one further and called on the church to step up to the plate and support women who choose to go full term.

    We can’t judge until we are also prepared to offer a way out of that judgment – forgiveness and support.

  26. carl said

    all of you saying that it’s wrong and evil should get off you high horses and thnk about what you are saying! teenagers WILL have a drink before their ment to, they WILL get into trouble and they WILL have sex before their 16! it’s part of growing up. but if a 16 or 15 year old girl gets pregnant surely their still a kid themselves, so why should they loose out on the rest of the fun that comes from growing up and be gilted into have a baby just because some of you think it’s wrong!!!

    Also my sister was raped in Turkey by 2 men, she found out that she was pregnant and the thought of what had happened to her was amplified by the fact that a part of one of these men was growing inside her! there was no way she was going to allow one of these men to affect her life for ever so she had a termination. (or as some of you are putting it murdered it) She now has 2 children with her husband that she loves and does not regret it one little bit and if any of you say that she was wrong to do this or start shouting off about god, then go ask your god why would he let a 16 year old get raped while on a family holiday? And go and talk to some one after this has happened to them and maybe you might start to open you eyes to the fact that we dont live in a perfect world, bad things and mistakes do happen but at least we now have the choice to change our own lives. And this is what you are all missing… it’s not your life!

  27. Dean said

    Well, I hate to tell you guys this since your so passionate about this….but you can buy hollywood props of “aborted fetuses” right here online.

    Otherwise, “Kimberly”, if in fact this is true, will suffer a lifetime of learning, developmental and health problems that the taxpayer will have to finance. Look forward to “Kimberly” in a special education curriculum in your home town….

  28. Dean said

    I see that you do not like to post dissenting opinions here……

  29. Ashley said

    Carl, I am 28 years old, I have 2 AMAZING kids, and a wonderful husband. The only times I drank before I was 21 were maybe twice at my parent’s house during a family party(and that wasn’t even close to being drunk). I didn’t have sex until my wedding night and I will never regret that I waited. Teens wouldn’t have sex and drink like they’re already 21years old if they were guided more when growing up. So to say that “Teens WILL, teens WILL, teens WILL…” is a stupid statement. Not all teens are irresponsible, and no it is NOT part of growing up. Getting a job is part of growing up. Getting your driver’s license is part of growing up. Getting married is part of growing up. Having sex is NOT proving you are “old enough”, it’s something that teens are very much so NOT ready for. If teens think that they are old enough to have sex then they are old enough to raise the baby that they create, then maybe that will open their eyes and they will wise up. Their choices are not that babies fault!

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